Advice for Novice who wishes to purchase two scopes budget $10,000

[Elliptical]

I have been interested in Astronomy for some time and have been to star parties and used friend's scopes.My long term aim is deep field Astrophotography, but also lots of Planetary (Solar System) gazing and imaging.Also Solar viewing,with the correct filters of course.My budget is approx A$10,000.

I have settled on an 80mm ED APO (triplet would be nice), and note the brands Williams, Meade,Takahashi,Celestron, Skywatcher,Orion, Saxon etc.I am thinking seriously on the Meade ED80, purchasing the Tak' would blow my total budget.

I plan on using an EQ5 GOTO mount (about $2,000).

For my SCT I am thinking of an Meade 10" LX200R, or a Celestron 11 CGE.The scope will eventually be mounted in a dome in acreage at the Southern Highlands of NSW Australia, so I will able to invite people to my Star Parties!.I hope one day to be able to have weekend long Star Parties hosting people from all over the world.

I will be using a Minolta Dynax 7xi for film and Canon Digital EOS 20, I will eventually buy a digital CCD color imager.

My questions:
1:For the Refractor is the Meade to best choice or should I consider the others.The Meade is seriously bargain priced.

2.For the SCT should it be the LX200R or the Celestron 11".

Thanks to those that answer my questions.

[Radar]

Hi Elliptical,

Welcome to My Astro Space.

I have read good things about the Meade refractors. Basically, the Meades are considered good value for money. I think starting off with the Meade is a good choice. If you find that the image quality (or something else) isn't up to your liking, then you can always upgrade. Re-sell value for Astro gear is quite good, so you wouldn't be losing much.

With the SCT's, I imagine you would want to be doing Astrophotography through these? If so, both are great telescopes, but the Celestron comes with a German Equatorial mount, which means easier access for shooting Southern Sky objects. This in no way means you can't shoot Southern Sky objects with the LX200 either. The fork arms on the LX200 can makes things restrictive when shooting things near the South Celestial Pole, but in any case, both telescopes can image the same objects.

The LX200 would need to be mounted on a wedge, whereas the C11 would not need this accessory.

As far as goto ability and tracking ability, they are both quite good.

Both telescopes are quite evenly matched. I think it will come down to a personal preference for you.

Have you had a chance to use any of these telescopes in the field yet (star parties, etc)?

[Elliptical]

Hi Radar,
Thanks for the speedy reply and advice.I have also thought about the mount, and decided that a German equatorial with GOTO is the foundation of my setup.This will cost between A$1100 (Meade) to about A$1599.

I can buy a 10" LX200R OTA as my Schmidt Cassegrain for about A$3000, total with mount less than $5,000 .I will use a "Star GPS" system connected to the Mount.

That leaves me about $5,000 for a nice refractor and eyepieces.Now a Takahashi is starting to look affordable.I may even be able to get a 60mm Tak as a finderscope for the LX200R OTA mounted on the EQ

I basically am saving about A$1500 buy getting an EQ mount instead of the Meade fork mount and accessories (wedge etc) that come with a standard LX200R.A plus is the better facility of the EQ mount, and it can be used for both scopes.

It will take a bit more thinking as yet but this is my general preference, any one who can further advise is mkost appreciated.

[Radar]

Hi Elliptical,

With the Tak finderscope, did you mean guidescope?

At one stage I was going to buy an expensive guidescope, but I ended up buying a simple skywatcher telescope and it has served me well. I'm glad I saved the money to invest into other things.

I would also look into how much weight the mounth can hold, then work out what your rig will weigh. You'll need to include everything from SCT, Guiderings, Guidering plate, Camera and guidescope. The closer you get to the mounts limit, the closer you get to all kinds of issues. Most mounts are fine near their limits, but the lighter you are when imaging, the better.

[RSW]

I think if you are serious about astrophotography, then a GEM is definietly the way to go. :thumbsupmate:

Keep us posted on what you get mate.

Happy New Year Everyone :thumbsupmate:

[Elliptical]

Hi RSW,

I was thinking of a 60mm as a quality guidescope,but may get a set of Zhummell Giant Binoculars online from the U.S. as part of the picture, this will allow me to have a handy and portable tool for moon gazing.

Yes RSW I think a Meade LXD750 or a Synta EQ6 GOTO mount might work for me. A Losmandy, Takahashi or Vixen would be the ultimate but cost is a factor, however I am not set yet on this issue and if able to get all my devices from one supplier might be able to talk a deal.I should hope so for approximately $10,000.

The Meade SCT 10" LX200R is not definitive, I could still end up with a good used scope such as a Vixen VISAC 8", a 11" Celestron Carbon Fiber tubed or even a new Meade LX75 10" Schmidt Newtonian, I have been told that some fantastic images can be captured on these scopes.

I really want to try and avoid to much of a compromise on the refractor, as I know a good purchase around 102mm will last me for the rest of my life.I have been told the new Meade ED 80 triplet and 102 use the finest Japanese flourite lenses, the 80mm does seem excellent value for an ED APO triplet in Australia, about A$850.00...that is exceptional.But then again, it should be cheaper from Meade, they are one of the largest manufacturers and can bring economy of scale.

I do get a little frustrated when I hear people say about a scope "It arrived unscathed but for some reason there were missing screws or whatever".

From many years of riding exotic motorcyles, using high end audio and very expensive musical instruments, not one of them has EVER arrived with the sort of quality issues I often hear about scopes.I am not pointing the finger at any manufacturer, it just seems that when reading reviews, there is often a little concern shown by regarding the assembly quality of various scopes.The concern I like, the problems I don't.

[Radar]

Elliptical have you tried looking at astromart yet? You might find some great second hand deals there. You may be able to squeeze a lot more out of your budget.

[Elliptical]

Hi Radar,

Astromart is fantastic and thanks for the advice.

There are some very interesting reviews there also, one thing is certain at this stage, that a really nice 102 to 120mm refractor is a must.That will be the first purchase.The SCT or Reflector can wait quite a while.

[CanisMajorTom]

Hi Elliptical, maybe if you see something you like on Astromart, you could place the link in here so that we can all comment (and at the same time have a sticky beak at what you are buying :Chessy_Smile: )

[Elliptical]

Hi CanisMajorTom,

Thanks I will post the link to astromart when I find something that I feel needs others to quizz me about.I am open to any advice experienced astronomers will give.

I am starting to realise (slowly) that the mount is the critical nexus for the proper use of a both a Refractor and SCT / Newt / Visac type Scope.

If I get the correct GEM then it does solve some sticky issues, a 10" SCT weighs a fair bit and I may need something along the lines of a Celestron CGE to take care of the scope weight.A Synta EQ6 Pro may not be suitable.Of course the price difference is HUGE so if I can find a really good used CGE mount first then I can move on to the scopes.

If I am very careful $10K may be enough.....may.Basically I could easily spend more but I am trying to exert some self discipline and avoid what musicians refer to as "GAS"....Gear Aquisition Syndrome.The choices must suit me for the indefinite future, that is why I need a refractor and and a SCT / Reflector.

One day, in the end I will have the SCT pedestal mounted in a humidity controlled dome for immediate operation sky permitting.

Bye 4 now.
Elliptical (Simon)

[CanisMajorTom]

Looking forward to seeing what you get mate. :thumbsupmate:

[AstroTasmania]

Hello Elliptical

You opened a can of worms here, some of what I have read makes good sense.

I would scale down your 'collection' to start with, newer and better items are coming on the market every 6 months or so, at a better price.

Let me assure you of one irrefutable fact - you get what you pay for! You will NOT get a Meade scope at a Tak price, I know, I own three different Takahashi scopes as well as several others of lesser quality. The Tak or similar will last a lifetime and produce the goods.

You do not need an expensive guide or finder scope. A bog standard 80mm Chinese refractor will do perfectly well, I have one, even take good pics with it.

Consider the William Optics 90mm APO with its superb Crayford focuser and brilliant optics, or any other WO scope, apo's in all sizes. I have the new 90 APO to look at when the darker nights come, also the Petzval 66 and 80SD.

These scopes are ideally suited to wide field imaging with any camera including a DSLR. Ease, accuracy and smoothness of focus is critical, the WO scopes now have the 10:1 geared down control as well as the normal control as standard.

SCT's are not the best photographic scope, their long focal length means it is tricky to fit objects even on a big CCD, exposures are much longer and their central obstruction does effect contrast. If you look at anyone doing astro imaging with a SCT, they are using focal reducers to get the f/ratio down as much as possible, not what the scope was designed for. The mount has to have VERY good qualities (low PE) and spot-on tracking for a long focal length SCT.

I would delay purchase of a SCT

If you are contemplating serious astrophotography, the mount is a very important item indeed. It has to be able to carry the load easily, have very low PE and be smooth.

LXD75 mounts do not come into that class, I use my LXD55 as a visual sky hopping mount with a small 4" refractor, and it is OK when it works.

You should look your equipment as an investment, buy something that will do the job you want, get a good mount & scope with a guide scope as a start and save up for any later additions. By then you will have a much better idea of what you really need.

You WILL be very disappointed if you buy something not up to the task. Having been down all these tracks I know now how to advise people. Read reviews on every major item to intend to buy, do not just accept one or two users views.

I hope these comments help,

Regards,

[Elliptical]

Hello Shevill,

Thankyou very much for the considered response.It is funny I did not factor the Williams 90 APO (about $1,800), yet I remember the huge critical acclaim the Z80 ED APO garnered.They look very fetching in Candy Apple Red enamel or shiny black.I want to be able to locate and photograph the planets and learn my own backyard before striking out.However if I see something with the naked eye that interests me I will target it without hesitation, then struggle to work out exactly what I am looking at.

Your suggestion to scale down my desire to build a collection is appreciated.I have been slowly isolating the idea of an SCT to the shelf, and have been thinking much more along the lines of a really good small scope, a quality one that I can carry.

I think it is better to learn to be an astronomer the way people did for thousands of years prior to GOTO and GPS.Then when I do get it I will appreciate it more. I really want to learn to do things manually with a warm jacket,starchart, map table and a red torch to plot I do want GOTO and will fit GPS eventually.I note VIXEN makes a nice one with a so called Starbook GOTO system.I will also check out the Williams recommended mounts.

Following the idea of leaving a SCT for now what brand of Equatorial mount would you recommend for a smallish refractor up to say 102mm?.

I want to avoid aesthics for it's own sake, you know, having a lot of pretty and powerful devices and not really understanding what to do with them.

I thought the articles by you and other writers / contributors in Sky and Space are fantastic and a stack of the magazines are located in strategic positions around the house and by my bed!

Thankyou again and I hope to visit your Observatory one day.
Simon

[Tenacious Del]

Informative thread. Hope you get what you are chasing Simon. :thumbsupmate:

[AstroTasmania]

Hello Elliptical

OK, say you have decided on a scope, maybe a Tak 102, which is just fantastic, say $3.500 current price from AEC, then a mount that will do justice to the scope is a Tak at around $5,000. Sometimes Claude has demo units and specials, give him a call/email and ask what he has as I have mentioned, also mention my name and say you want a good deal.

That's one option and it will work brilliantly, portable and superbly accurate. The other 'popular mounts are not in this class at all, and based on my own experience if I were starting out with $10K, this is where I would start.

An FS-102 is f/8 and with its $700 focal reducer it becomes f/6. Fantastic imaging and visual scope.

Next option and maybe a little cheaper but as good a quality, WO scopes, I prefer WO fit and finish and 10:1 Crayford focuser to the Tak, and I would make one of their scopes my first choice. To add a 10:1 unit to a FS-102 is $189 USA plus $12 freight, or $429 + postage from a local supplier in Australia. I have a friend bringing me one from the US later in the year, so it will only cost me $239 in local money, almost a $200 saving on such a small standard item.

WO also offer a very nice alt/az twin scope mount, which is WO standard, can have an Argo Navis computer fitted for easy push to. and with $10K you would get two scopes and a mount. ( I tend to favour this path from what I have seen of their equipment and easily available accessories, a nice range at very realistic prices). I have always had great service on WO gear from Daniel at frontieroptics.com.au, but there are other local suppliers to get quotes from too. Always get several quotes, especially when spending that sort of money, you should get a better deal overall. Check out availability of accessories and do a search on reviews. Some scopes one has to wait ages for and even longer for accessories, no problems with WO.

I would pass on all the other mounts mentioned and GoTo is not a critical issue, Argo Navis for an extra $600 or so will soon give you a fantastic instrument (I have one).

Many people starting out do not have $10K to start with so always have to compromise on the scope & mount.

Let me know your thoughts and if they are along these lines I am happy to 'vet' your possible choices.

Best Wishes