phenomenon ?

[phoenix]

Bermuda Triangle, UFOs, extraterrestrial.
This site has alot of weird and interesting theories, Take a look. :eartoear:


http://www.stateoftheart.nl/phenomenon/index2.html




Cheers Jason :pipethinker:

[Robert TG]

The Dragon in My Garage
(Chapter 10 in Carl Sagan’s book Demon Haunted World)

‘A fire-breathing dragon lives in my garage.’ Suppose I seriously make such an assertion to you. Surely you’d want to check it out, see for yourself. There have been innumerable stories of dragons over the centuries, but no real evidence. What an opportunity!
‘Show me,’ you say. I lead you to my garage. You look inside and see a ladder, empty paint cans, an old tricycle – but no dragon.
‘Where’s the dragon?’ you ask.
‘Oh, she’s right here,’ I reply, waving vaguely. ‘I neglected to mention that she’s an invisible dragon.’
You propose spreading flour on the floor of the garage to capture the dragon’s footprints.
‘Good idea,’ ‘but this dragon floats in the air.’
Then you’ll use an infrared sensor to detect the invisible fire.
‘Good idea,’ ‘but the invisible fire is also heatless.’
You’ll spray-paint the dragon and make her visible.
“Good idea, except she’s an incorporeal dragon and the paint won’t stick.’

And so on. I counter every physical test you purpose with a special explanation of why it won’t work.

Now, what’s the difference between an invisible, incorporeal, floating dragon who spits heatless fire and no dragon at all? If there is no way to disprove my contention, no conceivable experiment that would count against it, what does it mean to say tha my dragon exists? Your inability to invalidate my hypothesis is not at all the same thing as proving it true. Claims that cannot be tested, assertions immune to disproof are veridically worthless, whatever value they may have in inspiring us or in exciting our sense of wonder. What I’m asking you to do comes down to believing, in the absence of evidence, on my say-so.

(Read this book)

[Robert TG]

The site shown is full of 'Anti-science'. Presenting 'facts' of pseudo-science.

Extraordinary claims need extraordinary proof.

The truth is None of the claims made on that site have any basis in fact. This can be confusing to the general public. I have always considered True Science, Astronomy, is so full of Wonder. The false claims made in that site do not actually amaze me except to say that some people actually 'believe it ' and it is amazing how gullible people can be. I was once very very gullible but have grown a healthy scepticism to everything I see and hear.

News items on Radio and TV and papers often run articles that are found later to be total fabrications. Recently in the USA a major radio program there ran a story that Australia had an evacuation plan for 11 million people due to the drought. They quoted ‘Russian’ sources for the story.

It’s important to question everything otherwise you’ll end up believing everything.

[Robert TG]

Which of these do you Believe?

Absolute certainty, Alchemy (changing lead to gold), Alien Abductions, Aliens,
Amulets, ancient astronauts, Angels, Astrologists, Astrology, Atlantis, ability to become invisible, Bermuda Triangle, Big Foot, Bleeding statues, Canals on Mars, Changing water into gasoline, Channelling, Chants, Clairvoyants, communication with aliens, Communicating with dead people, Creation (Genesis) in 6 days just 6000 years ago, Crop circles, Crystals, Deja Vue, Demons, Devils, Devine inspiration, Dogma, Dowsers with forked sticks, Dragons, Dreams that forecast the future, Easter Bunny, Elf’s, Enchanted fish, ESP, Evolution, Exorcism, Extra-terrestrials, Face on Mars, Faith Healing. Flat earth, Flying Saucers, folk medicine, Fortune tellers, Genie in a lamp, Geomancy (Chinese), Ghosts, Hoary tetragrams of the I Ching, Hob goblins, Holy water, horoscopes, idolatry, Infinity, Jihad (holy war), Legends, Lemuria, Levitation, Little green men, Lock nest monster, long range economic forecasting, Long range weather forecasting, Lucky charms, Magic, Magic power of signs, Magic water, Man in the moon, Mana from heaven, Mediums, Mermaids, Mind reading, Miracle Pond water, Miracle healing, Mystic religions, Mythology, New Religions, Noah's Ark, 2 of every creature with all races from one family and God killing all other peoples, Nostradomas, Old Religions, Orga's, Palmistry, Parting of the red sea, Perpetual motion machine, Physic surgery, Pills of pulverised sacred scripture, Plant emotions, Plumb bob danglers to determine sex of an unborn child, Politics, Poltergeists, Potions, Prayer, Precognition, Previous lives, Project Qi, prophecy, Prophets, Quack medicine, Rabbits foot, Reading the minds of the dead, Rhino horns (pulverised), sacred scripture, Saints, Santa Claus, Shangri-La, Shroud of Turin, Magic power of Signs, Soothsayers, People with special powers, Spoon-benders, the Sun can stop in the sky, the supernatural, Supernatural revelations, Superstition, surviving ape men, surviving dinosaurs, Talking animals, talking Ass, talking serpents, telecinesis, Telepathy, the ability for people to fly unaided, the ability to walk thru walls, The Occult, throwing yarrow sticks, Tooth Fairy, Tower of Babylon for different languages, Transcendental meditation, TV Wrestling, UFO's, Unicorns, Voodoo, walk on water, Warlocks, Changing Water to wine, Wee Gee boards, witchcraft, Witches, Wizards.


Is the truth out there? Or is it that all the BS is out there.

[hpcoolahan]

here, here, well said bob the builder!

There seams to be too many de-bunkers out there

"Those who never look up avoid all of the cow manure but that's all they ever
get to see."

Thats why i have this as a signature , hopeing some readers might do the above.

Clear Skies to all
Patrick:pipethinker:

[Radar]

I think those sites are always an enjoyable read. I think they can be healthy in regards to getting minds thinking.

Sure, things require proof, but I think human nature nudges us to discuss and think about things that are on the fringe of what is real and what is not. I think if people blindly beleive this stuff, then that is bad, but it's always good not to rule things out to quickly as well.

I'll admit, whenever there is a good doco on foxtel about something wierd, I always entertained, whether I beleive is another thing. But I think humans will always love this stuff.

[Maia]

May I add how boring life would be,if it didn't have these wonderous things to ponder? If everything was black and white? No shades of grey?

[Radar]

I'm one of those people that wants to believe this kind of stuff, but I am also scientifically minded, which can be quite frustrating . :duh:

[Maia]

I'm one of those people that wants to believe this kind of stuff, but I am also scientifically minded, which can be quite frustrating . :duh:

I know what you mean-I'm like that too,but I still enjoy reading\watching these sort of things.Just keeping the mind ajar.

[Robert TG]

May I add how boring life would be,if it didn't have these wonderous things to ponder? If everything was black and white? No shades of grey?

There are very many wondrous things to ponder... Black holes, Neutron Stars, wormholes, Pulsars, relativity, inflation, Big Bang, Cosmic Background radiation, Brown Dwarfs, intergalactic dust, Redshifts, Magnetic pole flipping, The speed of light barrier, possible Alien life on other planets, galaxy evolution, the Planets and moons of our solar system, comets and asteroids, The Sun, LIFE.
That is just a start; there are many more 'real things' worth pondering.

Of course, many would want to believe there is a the dragon that lives in my garage.

I think that most people like to BELIEVE in wonders. After all, most of the people of the world believe in some religion/god and we teach belief to our children in such things as Santa Claus.

But is there a danger in believing such things?

When people choose to believe in anything without questioning the facts, there is a danger that they will act on these unproven belief.

For example, what if a world leader believes that he hears from god, who tells him that the battle of Armageddon must start so that ‘our lord’ can return for the faithful (this is written in a book and believed by many). When the majority of people believe such things they elect leaders who believe such things and some of these will have their finger on a nuclear button.

I feel uneasy when terms like ‘evil empire’ are used in describing other people’s governments. Believers can be herded into wars. People who question everything they are told tend not to rush into things and get the facts straight first.
The recent events in Iraq are an example of needing little proof and believing in what we are told with the ‘weapons of mass destruction’, links to ‘Al Quida’, etc.

My point is that the world is full of misinformation which many people find confusing and wonder ‘what to believe’.
We should not believe anything.
We should question everything.
Extraordinary claims need extraordinary proof.

[Maia]

Oh dear! My point was only to say that we don't have to believe in any of these 'stories' or 'theories',to be able to find them interesting.Nice also,to occasionaly escape the real world. No, I do not have my head in the clouds,dreaming of owning a blue dragon,nor do I hope the city of Atlantis will be discovered,I'm a down- to- earth person,that enjoys the wonders and mysteries of the world,be it real or fantasy.

BTW,a war could eventuate with any power hungry world leader,regardless of his\her superstitious beliefs.

[Medusa]

I believe in some of the things you mentioned Robert.

Medusa

[Robert TG]

I hope I have not offended anyone, as that was not my intension. I’ll try and explain…

I believe it's a free world and people are free to believe in anything they want too.
I believe I am not an unintelligent person but I know that I am a gullible person.
I have lived most of my life believing in one thing or another only to find out later in life that what I had so fervently believed was complete BullS_ _ _.

So, I have come to the conclusion that ‘Everything I believe in is BS’.
This is my personal 'Belief System'.
This paradoxically covers even my present belief that ‘Everything I believe is BS.’

In life, some people seek happiness, some seek riches, I have sort out the truth and had been lead down many a blind alley by those who profess to know the answers. Society is full of pretence, confusion and false wonders. Scepticism does not sell well.
Carl Sagan wrote of one man… “He simply accepted what was the most widely available and accessible sources of information claimed was true. For his naiveté, he was systematically misled and bamboozled.”
He could have been talking of me.
I have learnt much of what is not the truth.

For me to believe in anything you need faith. Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. So to believe in anything is to say you have no evidence but hope to continue the believing anyway.

Anyway that’s my BS. (Belief System)

[Radar]

Hi Robert, that is an interesting way of looking at things.

There are a lot of people out there preaching a lot of ridiculous and primitive ideals.

In the words of Carl Sagan, "it's important for us to all seek our own answers" (and in my words) "forge your own path, and not rely on the words and false wisdom of others".

We are all different and so should all have a different belief system, no two people's beliefs in the unknown should ever be exactly the same.

My understanding of the universe, god and our purpose is founded by me and only me. I use modern and well researched information to assemble the way I think and find it hard to concieve that there are people in our modern day society that still teach things like that there is a devil and hell awaits sinners. In this day and age, knowing that things like that are taught at schools shows just how far we still need to come.

Astronomy and other fields of science are the only true ways to learn about the big picture. That's my 2 cents worth anyway.

:hmm:

[Maia]

"To believe in anything is to say you have no evidence but hope to continue the believing anyway".

What about 'seeing is believing'? For most people, this a tough thing to go through, as they then spend half their life trying to find logical answers to their 'experience'. Nobody believes them, so it is a difficult thing left to live with.

Anyway, I try to accept the possibility, rather than close my mind completely on certain subjects.

[Radar]

There is so much stuff we still don't know. Some subjects are taboo simply because they are so far ahead of what we can understand or comprehend.

"Any open minded scientist should know that nothing can be ruled out, period."

"Our basic minds and understanding of this universe only allows us to visualise and percieve things that are within the laws and capabilities of our current science and physics, so it is predictable that once new phsyics and new science is learnt and mastered, that things once thought by many as impossible, would now be easily possible, and that things we could not have conceived as possible would also be possible."

"To rule out things like time travel or worm holes so early in our technological evolution (100 years) could be regarded as naive,,,,to say the least."

"This is why those kinds of scientific mystery shows can grab my attention, not because I am naive and beleive anything, but because we do not know enough about everything."

"At 100 years into our technological evolution we are hardly in a position to say what is and is not possible."

Radar 7th June 2007
Late Night Thoughts!

:thumbsupmate: :Chessy_Smile: :thumbsupmate:

[Tenacious Del]

Stick that in a blog Radar :pipethinker:

[wakaleo]

Big topic folks!


Which of these do you Believe?

Is the truth out there? Or is it that all the BS is out there.

With the exception of evolution, I don't believe any of the things in your list Robert. And that includes turning water into wine, even though I turn wine into water every day! ;-)


Oh dear! My point was only to say that we don't have to believe in any of these 'stories' or 'theories',to be able to find them interesting.Nice also,to occasionaly escape the real world. No, I do not have my head in the clouds,dreaming of owning a blue dragon,nor do I hope the city of Atlantis will be discovered,I'm a down- to- earth person,that enjoys the wonders and mysteries of the world,be it real or fantasy.

BTW,a war could eventuate with any power hungry world leader,regardless of his\her superstitious beliefs.

Good point Maia. I may read something I know to be BS but find it fun reading. What amuses and horrifies me at the same time is that there are people out there that believe in some of those things, like the mumbo-jumbo in Robert's list.


I hope I have not offended anyone, as that was not my intension. I’ll try and explain…

I believe it's a free world and people are free to believe in anything they want too.
I believe I am not an unintelligent person but I know that I am a gullible person.
I have lived most of my life believing in one thing or another only to find out later in life that what I had so fervently believed was complete BullS_ _ _.

etc., etc.

Anyway that’s my BS. (Belief System)

Well said mate. You could have been describing my BS too!

[Mick]

What I find interesting about this topic is how different the views are, that's why I think no one is right or wrong. Right or wrong has been the catalyst for most conflict that burdens our species. I try to accept all beliefs whether I believe in them or not. That's what I like about astronomy and the sciences, some of it will never make sense. Life is short and wondrous it is the journey not the end that interests me. :pipethinker:

[Robert TG]

Wakaleo said...
"With the exception of evolution, I don't believe any of the things in your list Robert."

Well that proves you read thru the list. LOL

I don't have a great deal against the idea of evolution once you have life. The part that is still unknown and unexplained is how chemicals could just form themselves into basic building blocks and eventually form life in the first place.

I think that it takes 'Faith' to 'Believe' in evolution, as science does not know the which chemicals are needed, what conditions are required, and how the beginning of the process of life works.

Evolution, as in the form of adaptation, can be proven. It's the beginning of life that is the mystery, and survival of the fittest does not really apply to inorganic compounds.

The only alternative theory is that of creation, and that takes even greater faith to believe.

I think we have not got the answer right and another theory will fill in the important details that are missing.

I don’t know the answer…. but mankind as a whole does not like to say the words ‘I don’t know’ and will usually answer with the best guess to any question.

[Radar]

I think that it takes 'Faith' to 'Believe' in evolution, as science does not know the which chemicals are needed, what conditions are required, and how the beginning of the process of life works.

I don't think evolution takes faith to beleive. It takes effort on part of scientists to unlock the secrets of it. We as humans have only just scratched the surface of chemistry and biology, we have much to learn, and should sit and enjoy the wait. Just because we don't have the science and answers now, this in no way discredits the theory, because at the end of the day, the thoery of evolution is the only educated theory out there which is based upon scientific observations by educated people.



words ‘I don’t know’ and will usually answer with the best guess to any question.

Yeah, I think these days educated people (especially scientists) will always say "I don't know", but back over history, stories were made up left right and centre to keep the masses happy.

[Medusa]

I Was abducted !

To believe or not to believe ?

http://www.iwasabducted.com/menu.htm

Medusa

[Maia]

How did THAT happen? I'm getting alot of errors, and it's taking ages to load,and double loading too.

[Robert TG]

I had a look through the site. Is that site a spoof? LOL, have a look at the photo's of the Aliens and UFO's.
I particularly like the "Glowing rectanguar UFO above parked Vehicle" in the UFO section.