Digital Photos using Web Cams

[Draig]

Hi All,

I know this can be done - that is using a webcam to take astrophotographs - but has anyone done it? If so what sort of Images do they produce? and how do you mount them to your telescope? Which is the best one to use ? etc etc etc.

Sorry a lot of questions I know, but any help would be appreciated.

Thanks Colin :hmm:

[Radar]

Yes this kind of imaging can be done with good results. Just takes a little time to learn all the ins and outs. But good results can come from it.

I used a program called K3CCD Tools, which was quite difficult to learn at first. I'm sure others here will be able to shed light on other software. Basically taking lots of little shots and stacking them gives you an overall good quality image. Polar alignment doesn't have to be so hardcore because we are talking about exposures that are only one second, so field rotation is never a problem.

This kind of astrophotography is a good way to start the craft.

[Draig]

Thanks Radar,

I know you use film for your Astrophotos, but do you, Astrotasmania or Noel, know how to mount the web cam to the telescope? I assume that the webcam is mounted in such a way that it "views" through an eyepiece but without touching it?

Regards Colin

[Radar]

The webcam I have uses no eyepeices in between. Though on bright planets like Jupiter, I found using a barlow (or even two barlows), brought the brightness down and allowed me to shoot more detail. The web cams I have
here slide directly into the diagonal like an eyepeice does. These webcams were made for this type of thing though. If you are using a standard webcam, you'll need something like this -

http://webcaddy.com.au/astro/adapter.asp

Also Col, this thread may be handy to you.

http://www.myastrospace.com/forums/showthread.php?t=89

:thumbsupmate:

[AstroTasmania]

Hi Draig

It is very straightforward, there are a variety of ready to use astro webcams USB 640 x 480 and video at 720 x 540. Check my Picasa web albums link below and go to the Video Cameras & Lenses SCO folder, Also Alhena Wide field System, which shows a ToUcam 840K system in use. They say a picture is worth a thousand words - get back to me after you have visited the albums if you need more info. I cover most areas of astrophotography, Cooled CCD, Video, Web Cams, DSLR & Film, in various formats & sizes.

You can use web cams & video cams with a Barlow system & eyepiece projection for a larger image scale. On my 12" f/5 reflector I use either a 2X, 2.5X Telenegative (Apo Barlow) or a Televue 4x Powermate with various web cams.

http://picasaweb.google.com/AstroTasmania

Clear skies...

[Noel Carboni]

Lots of good info here already.

The only thing I might add is that I've heard of some folks doing amazing things with webcams and very long exposures after doing two things:

1. Enabling "Raw mode" capture, which involves (I believe) a firmware change.

2. Adding a Peltier cooler.

I've no personal experience with a webcam; all my own photography I do with a 20D digital SLR and a Meade LPI imager (for planets). My chief collaborator, Greg Parker, shoots with a Starlight Xpress SXVF-M25C dedicated astro camera.

-Noel

[Draig]

To Radar, Astro Tasmania and Noel.

Thank you for your patience and undertanding - and most importantly the knowledge that willing to pass on to newbies like myself.

I know with your help I will be able to take some good pictures. But forgive me if I do not rush out and start straight away. The first thing I most do is try and learn how to drive my new toy :Chessy_Smile: . Then find some dark skies and start practicing.


Once again thankyou.

Cheers and clear skies Colin

[Tenacious Del]

Shevill, in that link you posted, there was this link -

http://picasaweb.google.com/AstroTasmania/AlhenaTwinWidefieldScopesMobileSetup/photo#4997180034381053970

That is a pretty cool looking setup. Can you image at the same time through both scopes or do you need one to be the guidescope?

[AstroTasmania]

Hi Dellio,

I am still working building this system, the final result will be cameras on both scopes and a Starlight Express CCD autoguider fitted to the top black 80mm f/5 finder. It may yet end up with more scopes so I can use 3 or 4 cameras simultaneously, one with the Starlight Express Adaptive Optics unit.

The modified Canon (Filter & Cooler mod) will go on the Tak, a modified Nikon D50 on the SN-10 as the first stage. I have a Tak Mewlon 210 and Tak FS-102 to mount yet. The carrying capacity of this mount is 65 kg, so not a problem at all. Depends what I am doing, I may also have a video and a still system for occultations with the GPS time/date stamp on the video.

Just a way of saving time and making the most of clear skies when available.

I have added text to the image.

Clear skies...

[AstroTasmania]

Hi Draig,

I started out using full size camcorders back in 1988, and that was a challenge! My first mini astro cam was a little 9 Volt board video camera, the type of thing hidden inside a clock or whatever for covert surveillance. It was about $100, I unscrewed the lens and turned up a wooden adaptor to fit over the lens housing and 1.25" outside to fit into a standard focuser at prime focus. I still have the video prints I made of the Moon & Jupiter. I gave the camera away to a fellow society member some years ago.

These little video cameras are a good low cost introduction, all you need is a TV set to see the images, no computer required, so very cost effective.

It has taken me a long time to get my equipment together, I have something like 30 odd 3-hour S-VHS video tapes of astronomical video through various scopes.

I have an interesting task - in my "spare" time to extract some of the really good stuff onto DVD.

Clear skies...

[scorpius]

I have a nexImage USB imager cam from Celelstron. Which I am not having much success with. Basically I think my laptop a Toshiba Sat 1900 is way far too slow esp the video card to handle it. The view is lagging very badly and the slightest touch of the focuser knocks the view out of sight.

I tried it on the moon with 45% filters screwed on the reducing lens and had the "moon filter" lid on the tube as well with the small bunghole open... but still had great difficulty in focusing. The magnification was massive about 1/8th of the moon on the screen.

Maybe the 10" is too big or something, I read on a web page that the older laptops are not very good with web cam type imagers. I also tried a logitech quickcam I modified and get the same result.

I guess I need to put the scope on the EQ6 and also make an electronic focuser and get a faster laptop or something. I had a look at (or tried to) Sirius and Spica they came up briefly about the size of golf balls on the screen but unable to lock or focus in. Even with the reducing lens.

Solutions appreciated.. Meantime will stick to the trusty 350D

:hmm:

Dave S

[AstroTasmania]

Hi Scorpius,

By the sounds of it, you have two immediate problems, one can be fixed straight away. A 10" scope is not too big, use it at full aperture, you do not need the Moon filter. Reducing the aperture & using a Moon filter is adding to your problems.

You need as much light as you can get to keep the exposures short to fraction of a second to minimise poor seeing. If the seeing is poor, you will likely have a 'jumping bean' leaping around your screen. Adjust the brightness on the camera controls.

Also, up-grade RegiStax to the latest version 4.xx, http://www.astronomie.be/registax/ the CD that came with my Neximage is way out of date, likewise check for updates with the Amcap software.

You may also find this link of some use/interest: http://sweiller.free.fr/RCE2006/Saturne-PM5/RegistaxV4-SaturnProcessing.htm

First off, just try the Neximage at prime focus, your image is way too big and the slightest touch on the scope will make focusing impossible. I have a Neximage also which I use on my 12" f/5 with no problems.

These cameras really need USB 2.0 ports, which are 40 times faster than USB 1.1. By the sounds of it, you only have USB 1.1. You really need to update your computer if you can. The time delay when making a focusing adjustment is way too long with a slow download, even USB 2.0 is not real time, there is a very small delay.

Remember these CCD imaging devices do produce a large image, even at prime focus. A very different image scale compared to your Canon 350D. You need very good seeing to go to EP projection.

Neximage also produce an add-on focal reducer, which will give you a wider field with a brighter image. Using a Dobsonian mounted Newtonian telescope is not your best option, put your OTA on your EQ6 if you can, you will have a lot more control over your scope this way.

Try and get a sharp prime focus image, it can be difficult to focus with a standard rack & pinion focuser, a Crayford style is much better.

Hope these suggestions are of some help.

Clear skies...

[Radar]

G'day David, I can't really add anything to what Shevill has suggested.

Are you shooting through an SCT or a Newt? If it's an SCT, I have a Meade electronic focuser you may be interested in. I do most of my photography through my Tak these days, so this focuser rarely sees any work.

[AstroTasmania]

Hi Radar,

It looks like a 10" Newtonian, reading the signature, but if it is a SCT at f/10 - !!

Clear skies...

[scorpius]

Hi Scorpius,

By the sounds of it, you have two immediate problems, one can be fixed straight away. A 10" scope is not too big, use it at full aperture, you do not need the Moon filter. Reducing the aperture & using a Moon filter is adding to your problems.
Comment Its a 10 in SW 880 dob and using it on Prime focus I also tried it with and without filters and also full aperture

You need as much light as you can get to keep the exposures short to fraction of a second to minimise poor seeing. If the seeing is poor, you will likely have a 'jumping bean' leaping around your screen. Adjust the brightness on the camera controls.
commentOK will look at again.

Also, up-grade RegiStax to the latest version 4.xx,
Comment I have Registax 4 and latest ASCOM
You may also find this link of some use/interest: http://sweiller.free.fr/RCE2006/Saturne-PM5/RegistaxV4-SaturnProcessing.htm

First off, just try the Neximage at prime focusCommentSee above been there done that

These cameras really need USB 2.0 ports, which are 40 times faster than USB 1.1. By the sounds of it, you only have USB 1.1.Its only 1.1 Toshiba 1900

Remember these CCD imaging devices do produce a large image, even at prime focus. A very different image scale compared to your Canon 350D. You need very good seeing to go to EP projection.CommentOK then why am I only getting 1/8th of the moons surface in full view on the screen? I have not even attempted EP projection..yet

Neximage also produce an add-on focal reducer, CommentGot one and tried it

Try and get a sharp prime focus image, it can be difficult to focus with a standard rack & pinion focuser, a Crayford style is much better.commentIt is a 2 speed crayford and modified especially for prime focus See my web page

Hope these suggestions are of some help.Comment Thanks It seems like I have covered them all. Including using the EQ6.

Clear skies...

It seems I need faster laptop or I knock up an ultrafast portable microcomputer. I think Ray and I had better get together sometime we are both members of ASWA in Perth.

[scorpius]

G'day David, I can't really add anything to what Shevill has suggested.

Are you shooting through an SCT or a Newt? If it's an SCT, I have a Meade electronic focuser you may be interested in. I do most of my photography through my Tak these days, so this focuser rarely sees any work.

Hi Ray. It the new SW880 10" Newt,fl1200 f5 2" GSO 2 speed crayford. Basically its not a big issue. I have the NexImage cam plus the reducer lens and thought I would see what makes it tick. I will probably stick to the Canon 350D which I am now coming to grips with. This heat is going to lay me low for a few days on medical advise after the saga at Lunatiks last month.

Guess I am in the market for a decent Laptop if I can flog the 8" dob.
106F for next two days...:ahh!: