Before the "Big Bang"

[malcant]

Thought I would start a new thread guys. I have heard, seen and debated with others about the big bang theory. But, I haven't seen any theories about what it might have been like before the Big Bang, what events may have caused it or what actually triggered the event.. :confused:

[Saj]

As far as i know (and i may be mistaken), before the state of all things resided in a singularity. Singularities it would seem defy all known laws of physics and hence elude all human conception. If that is the case then i would suggest that there is no known state for us to refer to. By "known" i mean our current state of understanding that is communicated by logic and through language. Though i do beleive there are other forms of knowing which constitute experiential forms of knowledge that transcend the linguistic forms of communication.

That essentially (in my opinion) throws us into the realms of mysticism. A realm where certain Realities can be experienced (and known) but by no linguistic means communicated from one individual to another. This would also leave us with endless and indisputable possibilities to the origins of our known Universe. Which to me instills the awe and wonder of existence in and of itself.

[Radar]

Interesting concept to think about. Modern physics says there was nothing but a void before the bigbang. But this subject is so deep, I wouldn't know where to start.

My personal theory on this, is that a big bang is a result of a big crunch. A universe was here prior, collapsed in on itself, formed a singularity, could no longer hold itself together then exploded, creating the new universe.

So here we have the chicken or the egg principle. What came first? The big bang or the big crunch?

Ray

[Mick]

Where is ground Zero?

[gyro]

I believe that Space and time are inextricable and so one cannot exist without the other, therefore there would be nothing before the Big Bang in terms of our Universe. Current conjecture on colliding Branes instigating singularities is interesting but way out of my league.

A cycle of an expanding/contracting universe seems to answer the problem, but doesn't explain what initially triggered it.

[malcant]

what about this? Before the big bang, there was just a void. All space and nothing else. But space itself was always moving and in doing so rubbed against itself causing friction and heat. Or even twisted itself into some sort of knot, which might also cause friction and heat. Then it got so hot a reation occured and BANG.

[Radar]

what about this? Before the big bang, there was just a void. All space and nothing else. But space itself was always moving and in doing so rubbed against itself causing friction and heat. Or even twisted itself into some sort of knot, which might also cause friction and heat. Then it got so hot a reation occured and BANG.

Interesting.

If space was here before the big bang, there was nothing here to twist it or cause friction to it. That would have taken energy, massives amounts of energy. Gravity would be a good candidate for this, but gravity is only created by something massive like a planet, star or (the ultimate) a black hole, and these weren't here (at least we think not) before the big bang.

Also we would have to show somewhere how space can rub on itself to cause friction. I'm not sure this is possible but others here may be able to shed more light than I.:confused:

This is a great topic. I love theoretical dicussions.

Ray

[Tenacious Del]

I think until we find out what dark energy and dark matter is, we will never have all the peices to the puzzle to figure out the big bang.

[gyro]

Also we would have to show somewhere how space can rub on itself to cause friction. I'm not sure this is possible [/QUOTE]

As I suggested earlier this stuff ain't easy...............

>>> In this cyclic model, two parallel orbifold planes or M-branes collide periodically in a higher dimensional space. The visible four-dimensional universe lies on one of these branes. The collisions correspond to a reversal from contraction to expansion, or a big crunch followed immediately by a big bang. The matter and radiation we see today were generated during the most recent collision in a pattern dictated by quantum fluctuations created before the branes. Eventually, the universe reached the state we observe today, before beginning to contract again many billions of years in the future. <<< Extracted fromhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclic_Universe_Theory

[jody.z]

malcomon stop messing with thier heads... in reality what does it matter ,we are here now .why do we need to know, and even if we did know what was before the big bang how could we prove it today and would people belive it tomorrow ......

[LJF]

Wa Ha Ha here is my stuff.

sorry guys cant post right now not enough time. Ill post as soon as possible.

AWWW Mal you beat me to it.:frown:


malcomon stop messing with thier heads... in reality what does it matter ,we are here now .why do we need to know, and even if we did know what was before the big bang how could we prove it today and would people belive it tomorrow ......

How dare you!!!:I_ANGR~14: This is scientific forum (mostly :biggrin: )
Science is not about right or wrong. You might need to be wrong to find the right answeres! Even if your wrong your still contributing! Humans need to know! Thats just what we are. I, and i dont think many other people here, appreciate your depressed additute!

Gotta go now, yell at you later jody.:frown:

[gyro]

in reality what does it matter .why do we need to know, and even if we did know what was before could we prove it today and would people belive it tomorrow ......

Hi Jody, I bet you don't use that arguement for the ones that got away. :wink: :wink:

A Chinaman is < 22yards. :biggrin: :biggrin:

[jody.z]

cmon guys no need to get your nicker in a knot :smile:
Im just havn a dig at mal (like always) if you have lived with mal you would understand...hehe another dig ,sorry mal!:biggrin:

[Radar]

In fact, just to confuse everyone a little more (I just thought of this), if the universe was created in a big bang, then it would have been more like a "big silence", because space is a vacuum, there is no air particles for sound to travel, so there would have been no bang. Just a "Big" without the "Bang". :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:

[gyro]

I touched on Multiverses/Branes earlier.

This 'expert' discussion (just finished on the radio) is pretty much bang on topic and well worth a listen. If the page moves on then just look in "Archive" for the Multiverse prog'

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/history/inourtime/inourtime.shtml